92 Palestinian kids killed last year to zero Israeli kids killed.

This editorial in the Israeli daily, “The Haaretz,” is a poignant look at many of the 92 deaths of Palestinian kids killed by the Israeli Defense Forces during 5767 on the Hebrew calendar (Sept. to Sept. 2006-07).

What sort of an alternate reality created by the mind control police does it take for us not to be able to see who the bad guy is when 92 children are killed on one side and zero are killed on the other?  Or when 457 total Palestinians are killed to 10 Israelis?  Gideon Levy is a brave soul for writing the truth in the midst of a hostile and cowardly croud.

He apparently followed the IDF on every incursion they made into Palestine and wrote about the dead children he found.  For example this story:

“The first of them was buried twice. Abdullah al-Zakh identified half of the body of his son Mahmoud, in the morgue refrigerator of Shifa Hospital in Gaza, by the boy’s belt and the socks on his feet. This was shortly before last Rosh Hashanah. The next day, when the Israel Defense Forces “successfully” completed Operation Locked Kindergarten, as it was called, leaving behind 22 dead and a razed neighborhood, and left Sajiyeh in Gaza, the bereaved father found the remaining parts of the body and brought them for a belated burial.”

“Mahmoud was 14 when he died. He was killed three days before the start of the school year. Thus we ushered in Rosh Hashanah 5767. In Shifa we saw children whose legs were amputated, who were paralyzed or on respirators. Families were killed in their sleep, or while riding on donkeys, or working in the fields. Operation Locked Kindergarten and Operation Summer Rains. Remember? Five children were killed in the first operation, with the dreadful name. For a week, the people of Sajiyeh lived in fear the likes of which Sderot residents have never experienced – not to belittle their anxiety, that is.”

 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/907708.html

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48 Responses to “92 Palestinian kids killed last year to zero Israeli kids killed.”


  1. 1 Chaya September 30, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    The vast number of Arabs killed in Gaza have been armed combatants. And if you had done any kind of research you would know that. And you would also know that they send their children to where the rocket launchers are and use their own children as human shields! This is not a ‘who has more killed?’ game! The fact that fewer children have been killed on our side (Israeli) does not take away from the fact that they fire rockets on civilians on a daily basis! If we wanted to, we could go in with tanks and fighter jets and reduce all of Gaza to a mound of rubble! And are you aware of the fact that the crossings into Gaza have been closed because Hamas gunmen fire at trucks bringing foodstuffs into Gaza?? You should also see the videos which teach children as young as three years old to be martyrs and to hate the infidel! You, my friend, are on the wrong side.

  2. 2 theradicalmormon October 1, 2007 at 4:37 am

    Chaya,
    How naturally you spout the rhetoric accepted by the western press and our nation’s politicians. It is asinine to make the claim that Arabs use their children as human shields. In a place as crowded as Gaza, there is nowhere that there are no children! On the other hand, Israeli courts have found the IDF guilty of using Palestinian Children as human shields. Additionally, does the IDF not use children as human shields when they make their bases in civilian populated areas such as the northern Israeli towns that were bombed by Hezbollah in last summer’s massacre of Lebanon?
    The fact that Palestinian resistance has fired on Israeli civilian areas should be obscured by the massive civilian casualties inflicted on the Palestinian population, not only by the IDF, but by war crimes such as bombing electrical plants and cutting off water supplies etc. Armed combatants must include teenagers with rocks and women and children sleeping in Beit Hanun last fall (19 of them). I know you could turn Gaza into rubble, but what good does it do for you to brag about this? Learn something from the Iranians who renounce violence and proclaim that the era of the nuclear weapon is gone. Learn something about humanity.
    I know all about the Hamas gunmen. Why should Gaza accept any of your feinted charity? Why should you slam Gaza into the ground and then be it’s savior? Any supporter of the Zionist regime is on the wrong side my friend. It is very clear to me.

  3. 3 Chaya October 1, 2007 at 11:59 am

    And you have accepted the ‘rhetoric’ of the Leftist press. You think it is so ‘crowded’ there, that there is no room to move about? There are plenty of fields from which these rockets are launched. And the children are sent into the fields. You don’t know a thing about Gaza nor Israel. The so-called ‘human shields’ that the IDF has used is asking someone to knock on a door of a house because there is a wanted terrorist inside. The Gazans use is actually bringing civilians into the battle. “Feinted charity???” This is not coming from us!! This is coming from international organizations whose trucks are fired upon by Hamas and other terrorist groups. If they want their people to starve, so be it. But I see there is no convincing you. We will protect ourselves as we see fit and you can go to hell!

  4. 4 Chaya October 1, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    I am sorry I lost my temper. Here is a history of the Land of Israel.

    http://www.eyeonisrael.com/Israel-touring-map.html

  5. 5 theradicalmormon October 2, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Chaya,
    I have long studied the situation over there. If you want me to be sympathetic to your situation, this is what you must do:

    1) You must release the elected government officials of Hamas you are holding… oftentimes without charge.

    2) You want Corporal Shalit back? You must return the Muamar brothers that you kidnapped just before Corporal Shalit was captured.

    3) Better than that… you have to return the better part of the 11,000 or so Palestinian prisoners you hold… again, many without charge, and some who are children according to Beit Selem.

    4) Stop stealing Palestinian water, especially in the most needed summer months.

    5) Close down the secret prison you have in the north.

    6) Take away your land grabbing wall, your checkpoints and your military from the land it occupies.

    7) Give back the land you took in 1967.

    8: Give Arab people the right to return to the land that you terrorized them out of.

    9) Allow the IAEA to come to inspect your nuclear facilities and oversee the destruction of your nuclear warheads.

    These are just a few suggestions that will make it easier for me to have sympathy on your plight. If your conflict was not so massively assymetrical it would be easier for me to be neutral.

  6. 6 Chaya October 2, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    We aren’t occupying anything – this is Eretz Yisrael, the land to which we have prayed for the past 2,000 years. The land from which we were exiled – but not totally left – by the Romans. It is the Arabs who are the usurpers. There has never been a Palestinian land nor a Palestinian people. Tell me, who ruled ‘Palestine’ before 1947? And before that? And where does the name ‘Palestine’ come from? And who were the Palestinians before 1947?

  7. 7 theradicalmormon October 3, 2007 at 4:43 am

    Chaya,
    Because you pray for a land you can take it? Who was in the land before Israel took it in the time of Moses? Do they also have claim to the land? Palestinians before 1947 were Jews and Arabs. The land that was given you by the UN in that extraordinary and unprecedented action where you were given land that belonged to other people. However, you immediately began to take more than that which was given you. You are there now and I am kinder than you, so I do not desire for you to be a refugee as so many Arab Palestinians became. Go back to pre-1967 borders and allow the right of return of Arab Palestinians, and then establish a representative democracy (which would effectively kill the zionist government of Israel as Arab’s would have a much larger voice than they do now).

  8. 8 Chaya October 3, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    The idyllic life in Gaza:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2543457.ece

    You didn’t answer all my questions. And – by the way – there has never been a time for the past 4,000 years when there weren’t Jews living here. The people prior to our arrival with Joshua don’t exist anymore. If the Romans hadn’t exiled us, we would not be having this communication. But, of course, Jews have no rights – only Muslims do. So, read about the idylic life of an Islamic-run area right next to us.

  9. 9 Chaya October 3, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    Most residents of the Gaza Strip are afraid to openly express their political views following Hamas’ takeover of the area in June, according to a poll released Wednesday.

    The poll found that a majority of Gazans oppose rocket attacks on Israel, favor a peace agreement with the Jewish state, and do not consider the Hamas authority in Gaza to be the legitimate Palestinian government. (AP)

    And you might be surprised to learn that a great number of Gazans actually WANT Israel back again! During the time we were in Gaza, the Gazans had work and could support their families very well. They remember the good relations they had with the Jews in Gush Katif where many of them had jobs. The Israelis would go to Gaza as well to do shopping. Even today, some of them have maintained some connection with their former ‘neighbors.’

  10. 10 theradicalmormon October 4, 2007 at 2:49 am

    Chaya,
    I have not seen this poll you quote. There are many ways to manipulate polls to fit one’s agenda so I cannot rely on word of mouth. Show me the poll and I will see if it has merit. My suspicion is that it doesn’t hold merit. It doesn’t seem to match the democratic will of the Palestinian people who voted Hamas into office in 2006, over the corrupt Fatah.

    Also, thank you for the story on Hamas. It seems that they are not the best sort of people… however, they are the democratically elected government of Palestine. The story fails to mention a few important points. One being that the CIA and Israel funded and supplied Fatah, fomenting the fighting between Fatah and Hamas. The second point is that it is actually Abbas that has ran a coup against the government as he has completely gone against their constitution and declared himself the leader of Palestine. This is the man that Israel and the US do business with… a soulless, gutless sycophant.

    None of this changes the fact that Israel is a violent and cruel occupier of Palestinian land, killing and expanding and repressing.

    As far as pre-1947 Palestine goes, I know that there was no sovereign nation there, but that there were many more Arabs there than Jews. When the UN gave Jews more land than it gave the more numerous Arabs, did you think that Arab Palestinians would jump for joy?

  11. 11 theradicalmormon October 4, 2007 at 5:13 am

    As you see here, I can quote you a poll from last month that shows that 52% of Gazans think that the Hamas government should stay in power. That’s quite a bit bigger approval rating than the US President Bush has.

    “Fifty-two per cent think that the Government led by Hamas premier Ismail Haniya should stay in office…”

    -ABC news, 9/11/07

    Of course, these sorts of polls are useless unless we are also allowed to see who was asked the questions and in what manner and context the questions were given.

    Going to the source of the poll shows that even ABC had it wrong. It should have been 52% opposed to Hamas rule. Funny.

    In any case, it seems that US/Israeli plans have worked to isolate and make unpopular Hamas. If you study US history, this is the tactic used often by the US. We did the same thing in Nicaragua where the Sandinistas were elected by a majority, but we paid terrorists to bring so much death and destruction upon them that the populace soon found that the only way to have a semblance of peace would be to vote for the US backed candidate. It seems that the same proven methods are working again.

  12. 12 Chaya October 7, 2007 at 6:47 am

    Very interesting web site about Mormonism – especially the ones about human sacrifice, that blacks are inferior and hypocritically drinking alcohol and chewing tobacco. Got a good laugh from all this.

    http://www.realmormonhistory.com/

    And that poll you quote above? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Almost as funny as the web site about Mormons!

  13. 13 Chaya October 7, 2007 at 6:51 am

    “there were many more Arabs there than Jews.”

    And when your ancestors arrived in Utah, there were many more Indians than white people.

    And how do you know what the population was here at the time? Go back each century and you will find Jews in all three cities holy to Judaism: Jerusalem, Tiberias and Safed (Tsfat). And of course before the Arab conquest (by the sword, mind you) in the 7th century we Jews were living here.

  14. 14 Chaya October 7, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    My, my – you have a lovely history!

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/books/reviews/3632446.html

    And there is no comparison with what was done to the natives of North America by the white man to how Jews related to local Arabs. Actually, there is a comparison to be made – the Arabs – at various times – slaughtered the Jews! 1929 – Sfat (where Jews have been living for thousands of years) The riots of 1936 – 1939 which the Arabs were actually ‘rewarded’ for by the British by putting limits on Jewish immigration (Jews trying to escape the Holocaust) and turning a blind eye to Arabs coming in from Syria, Lebanon, etc.

    So, you and the Arabs here have a lot in common!! Makes you proud, huh? No wonder you support them! You are both racists!!

  15. 15 Non-Arab Arab October 7, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Ah, a favorite Gun Zionist tactic: say somebody else did something bad therefore we can do worse (oh, and quoting cheap anti-Mormon websites or other articles who get 90% of their facts wrong or out of context may seem appropriate to a Zionist, but not to anyone with a brain). Oh and Chaya, I’ve been in Gaza, I’ve spent a long time in the West Bank, I’ve lived in Jerusalem among both Israelis and Palestinians and been all over Israel, and I’ve spent years and years immersed in various aspects of the conflict. So just say what you mean and get out – you wish Palestinians didn’t exist so you could just treat them like rats to be exterminated (hmmm…didn’t a few people in your own history do that to your people? phew, good thing we’re not supposed to learn anything from history). Oh wait, you already denied the existence of Palestinians (funny, all the Palestinians I know seem to think they exist and that they are in fact Palestinians), and you already treat them like dogs. Exhibit A) “so-called ‘human shields’ that the IDF has used is asking someone to knock on a door of a house because there is a wanted terrorist inside” – uhhh…dude, that’s called turning that person into a “human shield” so that they will get shot first if any of the anti-Zionist freedom fighters inside can’t discern what’s going on. And those human shields have been shot. And IOF (Israeli Occupation Force) troops have also TIED PALESTINIANS TO THE HOODS OF THEIR CARS as they charged guns blazing into crowds of brave (as opposed to cowardly IOF forces) Palestinian only-rock-or-sometimes-only-sign-wielding demonstrators demanding they be treated like human beings instead of the rats you treat them as.

  16. 16 theradicalmormon October 7, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    Chaya,
    The mountain medows massacre is well established to be an isolated incidence of a group of mormons who committed murder, not with any connection to the leadership of the Mormon religion. If you want to know more about our lovely history, visit lds.org and see how we were murdered, raped, and massacred all the way from New York to Utah in the 1800’s. There was even an exterminating order in the state of Missouri. Anyone who saw a Mormon waw legally allowed to kill him or her!

    Anyway, this thread is not about Mormon history. It is about the current human rights crimes by the Nazi-like Zionist regime in Israel, against the oppressed and occupied peoples of Palestine. You cannot justify your nation’s crimes against Arab Palestinians because of what someone else has done to another group of people.

    It must be with great restraint against your conscience that you call me a racist. I freely admit my racist tendencies that have been ingrained in me from my upbringing… which I am fighting against in order to correct wrongs done to all sorts of races in the USA. I would be glad to see reparations and a leveling of the playing field for many races that have been despised in our country. I am horrified at the practices of the USA in relation to the native americans throughout history.

    On the other hand, I would also like to see the Palestinians, who suffer daily because of Zionist racism (the type you embrace), receive justice. Instead they are killed daily and squashed into smaller and smaller parcels of land, like no other people in the world.

  17. 17 Chaya October 8, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    They had a chance to establish a state; but Arafat turned it down! All the money that had been given to him for his people he put into bank accounts in European banks! And the money that was given to those in Gaza for development was taken to buy weapons with. In the meantime, the people there are suffering because of this. Hamas gunmen threw people off the roofs of buildings in order to establish ‘control’ there. The people there are currently living in a regime of fear.

    Racism? Why is it that Muslim and Jewish doctors work side by side in Israeli hospitals treating all patients no matter who they are? And even terrorists are treated in our hospitals! You don’t know who we are.

    I read about the Mormom stand concerning Blacks so don’t tell me otherwise. And you are living on land that was taken from Native Americans. Why don’t you leave?

  18. 18 Non-Arab Arab October 9, 2007 at 1:01 am

    1) Arafat wasn’t offered a state, he was offered a Bantustan. One of the few good things that lousy corrupt man did was turn down Israel’s “offer” of permanent enslavement of the Palestinian people.

    2) Yes, he was corrupt, just as Abbas is corrupt, but of course Israel likes Abbas because he is corrupt and will betray his people.

    3) There can be no peace until there is freedom and security. The American revolution had to buy weapons first before there could be money available to pay for development, same as in any country.

    4) The people are suffering because of Israel murdering, torturing, and imprisoning them, all else is secondary effects that Israel uses as excuses.

    5) “Hamas gunmen threw people off the roofs” – pot, meet kettle, all is black. Israel murders thousands and the best you can point to to justify yourself is a moment of chaos and vigilante justice that pales in comparison to all Israel and corrupt Fathawis did. Typical. Hamas may not be angels, but Israel is 100 times worse.

    6) One party rule is never good, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, agreed. That said, it is Hamas that is reaching out practically begging Fatah to create a genuine power-sharing agreement, but Israel and the Bush regime are funneling guns and money to the petty wanna-be-dictator Abbas to prevent him from doing so.

    7) I know exactly who you are O Zionists. Yes, Muslim and Christian Palestinians live in Israel because it is their homeland and they have to find a modus vivendi and many have found a way to live their day to day lives. But it all started first with the Nakba and then 20 years of living under the VERY SAME that pre-Israeli state Zionists denounced when the British applied them to them and then ENFORCED ONLY ON ARABS after independence. Arabs within the borders of Israel had the snot beaten out of them, their will pummeled by the pitiful excuses that Israel pretends to call law. Eventually realizing they had no choice but to move on under the racist regime and make the best of it they could, they did. But a gilded cage is still a cage. That is why you have Land Day, and the various Islamist party factions, and the campaigns for Al-Aqsa, and Arabs48.com, and Azmi Bishara, and Emil Habibi’s writings, and on and on and on. Oh, I know you well, I’ve been treated to your racism first hand and I’ve watched you treat many many others with the same racism. Don’t let the fact that Arabs in Israel (whom you strangled into nominal submission after 1948) want to get along and have a decent life confuse you into thinking they like being treated as second class citizens. They can see you as human beings despite all you beat out of them, but they know very well what you are capable of even if you deny it to yourself.

    8) Perhaps you should speak to some black Mormons before you mouth off saying “I read something, look at me, look at me, I read something!” Yes there have been racist Mormons and periods of racism being spoken from the pulpits, but not one of us here defends that. Even in the days of the Priesthood ban, few understood it and chose to tap into then current streams of American racism to justify it. We know that was wrong and condemn it. Black Mormons deal with this issue every day, and there are Black Mormons who were members of the church even in the days of the Priesthood ban who will give you a nice long explanation of why they still had their faith.

    9) Native Americans – what America did to the native Americans was wrong, wrong, wrong and they deserve to be compensated and helped. Will you say the same about what Israel did to the Palestinians? Including the millions who live as immediate neighbors in refugee camps in the Occupied Territories and neighboring countries? In the here and now, the United States at least no longer bans Native Americans from living wherever they want, but Israel does ban the native inhabitants of the land from living wherever they want while an 18 year old pimpled kid from Brooklyn can come, kick a family out of their home and off the land they have lived in for 1000 years and then shoot and kill them.

    Pity the Gun Zionist, can’t even acknowledge the reality they are living and the suffering they are creating out of their greed. Your entire argument amounts to “but I want to steal this land really REALLY bad and I have a cooler story than those guys so gimme now or else I’ll shoot you dead and claim self-defense”.

  19. 19 theradicalmormon October 9, 2007 at 6:52 am

    Very good Arab. Well said. Well did the Lord speak thru Isaiah when He spoke of Israel saying in Isaiah 59:

    1 Behold, the LORD’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
    2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
    3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
    4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
    5 They hatch cockatrice’ eggs, and weave the spider’s web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
    6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
    7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
    8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

  20. 20 Chaya October 11, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Well, well – another anti-Semite spouting lies about us.

    “Israel murders thousands” Why don’t you just say we murder children so we can use their blood to make matzos? It’s just as much of a liable as the fact that we ‘murder thousands.’

    There is no such thing as a Palestinian people – never was in all of history. Am Yisrael Hai!! The Jewish People Live!! We have returned to our ancestral homeland and we will never leave! And Islam will self-destruct – G-d willing – and they will murder each other because that is the only thing they know how to do. Murder and destruction. Christians are being murdered all over the Moslem world. Christians of the world unite and help us fight this evil insanity!!

  21. 21 theradicalmormon October 11, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    Chaya,
    I deleted your last two comments as they are expressions of your hatred for the muslim religion. That sort of talk is not tolerated here. If you care to comment here on the topic presented feel free. However, do not use this site as an avenue of anti-muslim hatred.

    I let your last comment stand as a testimony to your lack of humanity. May you repent of your ways, though I have little hope for you.

  22. 22 Chaya October 11, 2007 at 7:35 pm

    Ah! You deleted words from the Koran!! Mmm. Very interesting!

  23. 23 Non-Arab Arab October 12, 2007 at 1:40 am

    Chaya, here’s a suggestion for you. Go into a Palestinian refugee camp (heck, you can even pretend none of the Palestinians that you walk past exist if it makes you feel better) and try this: talk to them. Ask the old men their stories about 1948. Ask the young men and women their stories living under Israeli rule. Don’t express your opinions, just ask and listen. It’s something I have done with both Israelis and Palestinians. There are plenty of Palestinian refugees living right next door to you. Why don’t you ask them what they have lived through. When you’ve spent a few days doing that, why don’t you come back here then and report on what you learned.

  24. 25 Chaya October 12, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    “Hitler’s Legacy: Islamic Anti-Semitism”

    http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/10/dr-matthias-kue.html

    The Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini, collaberated with Hitler and formed a Muslim SS unit in Europe. So, to say that the Arabs of – what was called – Palestine had nothing to do with the Holocaust is an outright lie.

    Again – I repeat – Arafat had been offered a sizeable amount of land – enough to establish a state on. IF he had cared more about his people than killing Jews, he would have accepted it. After all, Ben Gurion accepted a broken up piece of ‘Palestine’ because he knew that something was better than nothing!

  25. 26 Non-Arab Arab October 12, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    Have you gone and visited any of the refugee camps yet Chaya? You’re doing a whole lot of talking, but still showing no signs of ever having done any listening. Now’s always the best time to start. So come on, up out of that computer chair and walk a few miles over to your neighbors in the refugee camp. They’re there with all their stories ready to share, now get going, you’ve wasted enough breath talking, time to go listen. I look forward to your report back.

  26. 27 Chaya October 13, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    You are right. The refugee camps are abominable places! But they have been kept that way by their leaders in order to show the world how horrible Israel is! I remember some years ago Israel wanted to destroy the camps and have homes/apartments built there – they were turned down! Why don’t you focus in on the camps in Lebanon? In the recent battles between Palestinian fighters and Lebanese forces, all the homes were destroyed in the camps! And the Palestinians there have no rights – to vote or even to have a job.

    While Israel was in the Gaza Strip, the residents of Gaza had jobs and could support their families. Friendships developed between the Gazans and the Jewish residents of Gush Katif. And they would often go shopping in Gaza City. But then the residents of Gush Katif were thrown out of their homes. They were told it was for ‘peace.’ This was done by Ariel Sharon! What we got was a barrage of rockets fired at us daily on the residents of Sderot. Israel wants nothing more than for the people of Gaza to rebuild their lives; but now that Hamas is in control – and they got that control by throwing people off of roofs and shooting them in the streets – the Gazans’ lives are even more miserable than before with music at weddings being banned and women being forced to cover themselves up Iranian-style. So, why don’t you go into Gaza and report back as to how they are living. And – by the way – what exactly is a “Non Arab Arab?”

    And, oh yes, take a look at the site of this Moslem:

    Sheikh Palazzi’s web site:

    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/index.html

  27. 28 Chaya October 13, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    And the Koran recognizes the right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel:

    http://www.rb.org.il/RBIS/RBIS%202001/RBIS%202001.02.23.htm#2

  28. 29 Chaya October 13, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Read which Arab leader welcomed the Jews home:

    http://www.amislam.com/new.htm

    And there are lots of other interesting things on the site of Sheikh Palazzi.

  29. 30 parallelsidewalk October 14, 2007 at 2:24 am

    Chaya,
    A lot of Palestinians also fought against the axis during WW2. As did Muslims from all over the world. Once grand mufti ally to a (Christian) anti-semitic dictator doesn’t make us all Nazis, as much as that line is good rhetorically for justifying whatever hatred you may feel for us.

    TRM
    Interesting blog by the way. I was raised Mormon but converted to Islam. I will definitely be back to check it out.

    –Dave, http://parallelsidewalk.wordpress.com

    P.S. Have you read “Long After Dark”? If so, what did you think?

  30. 31 Non-Arab Arab October 14, 2007 at 3:33 am

    Chaya, you’re still talking talking talking and not doing any listening. Still waiting for your reports from the Palestinian refugee camps you’re going to visit and all the people you are going to talk to. They’re right next door, they’re your neighbors, when are you going? I’ve been to several of them and would love to compare notes, but if you don’t get up out of that well-worn computer chair you’ll never get over there. So go ahead, put the dates on your calendar, go do some listening, and let me know what you hear. Lip flapping actually doesn’t burn many calories you know, you’re likely to end up overweight and facing heart problems if that’s all you do. So get up, take that walk over to your neighbors and report back. Waiting to hear your report, you sure are lucky to have your Palestinian neighbors so close by to make this such an easy take requiring only your willingness to move to make it happen.

  31. 32 Chaya October 15, 2007 at 11:57 am

    As I said, I know how miserable their lives are without actually going there – as if I would be able to!! They would probably lynch me! A Christian man who ran the only Christian bookshop there was recently murdered. All they have to do is to stop shooting missles at us! That’s all! It’s very simple! Then they will see how much help they will get from us! We would bend over backwards to help them!

  32. 33 theradicalmormon October 15, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    Sidewalk,
    Thanks for checking in. I haven’t read “Long after dark”. I’ll try to check it out when I get a chance here.

  33. 34 parallelsidewalk October 15, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    “They would probably lynch me!”

    A Jewish friend of mine worked for Red Crescent in Palestine as a medic and was treated perfectly well, getting in two verbal confrontations the whole time and never being physically accosted at all.

    “A Christian man who ran the only Christian bookshop there was recently murdered.”

    And he was murdered by Muslims because he’s Christian? Can you prove all of this? It seems odd to me since many Palestineans, including militants, are Christian.

    “We would bend over backwards to help them!”

    I’m not necessarily pro-Palestinean or anti-Israel in general outlook, but past actions and rhetoric don’t make this seem likely to me.

  34. 35 theradicalmormon October 15, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    Chaya,
    “All they have to do is to stop shooting missles at us!”

    Isn’t this what happened for a year and a half as Hamas undertook a unilateral ceasefire?

  35. 36 Chaya October 17, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    E. Jerusalem Arabs Prefer Israeli Rule

    Many eastern Jerusalem Arabs are unhappy over the prospect of their neighborhoods becoming part of a Palestinian state, as demanded by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

    The Toronto Globe & Mail quoted Nabil Gheit, a shop owner and mayor of the Ras Hamis community in Jerusalem, as saying that if a referendum were held on the issue, “no one would vote to join the Palestinian Authority.” PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has declared that any agreement that is signed with Israel will be submitted to the people for a vote.

    Imposing PA rule in the area would cause another Intifada “to defend ourselves from the PA,” he added. “At least in Israel, there’s law.”

    This is not the first time such sentiments have been expressed. I myself have spoken with some Palestinians who declared that they were far happier and definitely more prosperous financially under Israeli rule than under the Palestinian Authority. One businessman whispered to me, ‘I pray every day that Israel will take back Bethlehem [his former home]. We had a good life there under Israeli rule. Since Bethlehem was given to the PA, we have all fled out of there. Thugs rule the streets. It’s awful.”
    ===========================
    So, there are even Arabs who prefer to live under Israeli rule! And many many of the Arabs in Gaza would like the same thing!!

    ‘Ceasefire’ is another term for ‘rearm’

  36. 37 Chaya October 17, 2007 at 12:55 pm

    Non-Arab Arab (what does that mean?)

    Why don’t you go to Gaza and help them?

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3460845,00.html

    Parallel: (what strange names)

    The number of Christians in the PA areas have decreased because of harrassment by Muslims! Christians have been leaving in droves!!

  37. 39 Non-Arab Arab October 17, 2007 at 8:35 pm

    Chaya, I’m really getting concerned for you. I mean your rear end must be developing seat sores by now and your fingers arthritis from all this addiction to staring at the screen and neurotically typing screeds while ignoring any opportunity to listen to any reality beyond that dreamed up in your head. Come now, for your own good health and sanity, it’s time to get up out of that chair and go talk to your Palestinian refugee neighbors. They’re no more than a few miles away, they have stories to tell you have clearly never heard, and you really need the help they can offer to help you exercise your ears which are clearly on the verge of atrophying to nothing if they don’t get some urgent use. Come on, I know you can do it, I believe in you. Get up out of that seat and do like I’ve done and do some long listening to others without presuming to speak for or to them. As a famous Cajun in an Adam Sandler movie once said “You can do it!”

  38. 40 Chaya October 18, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    WOW!! You totally ignored everything I have sent you! You sound like a broken record!

    This is what happens when Israelis and Palestinians try to get together:

    Voices Against OneVoice
    by Carlos

    http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/onevoice.htm

    October 18, 2007 – OneVoice is a group of Israelis and Palestinians who have joined together to advocate for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My only criticism of them is that their web site contains too many press releases and not enough substance. I really do want to hear the voices of “OneVoice” speaking words of mutual recognition and affirmation of the other’s humanity. Nevertheless, I can only applaud an organization that tries to be a voice of moderation in a world dominated by extremes.

    The following comes from the OneVoice mission statement:

    OneVoice aims to amplify the voice of the overwhelming but heretofore silent majority of Israelis and Palestinians who wish to end the conflict. Since its inception in 2002, OneVoice has empowered ordinary citizens to demand accountability from elected representatives and ensure that the political agenda is not hijacked by extremists.
    OneVoice works to reframe the conflict by transcending the “left vs. right” and “Israeli vs. Palestinian” paradigms and by demonstrating that the moderate majority can prevail over the extremist minority
    While the needs and concerns of the Israeli and Palestinian peoples are different – Israelis wish to end terror and the existential threat to Israel; Palestinians wish to end the occupation and achieve an independent Palestinian state – the vast majority on each side agrees that these goals are achievable only by reaching a two-state solution.
    OneVoice planned a “People’s Summit” to be held today. The Summit was to consist of two coordinated events in Tel Aviv and in Jericho, reaching both Israelis and Palestinians. At these rallies, “Ordinary citizens will speak out in unprecedented numbers against violent extremism, occupation, and terror, and demand that their leaders negotiate and implement a two-state solution.” The intent was to press strongly for a compromise that would bring to fulfillment the wishes of moderates to live together in peace.

    Now what could be wrong with that?

    Palestinian extremists, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, have been waging a propaganda war against OneVoice, portraying it as out to betray the interests of the Palestinian people. This campaign has escalated to threats of violence. And so for security reasons, OneVoice had to cancel the Jericho event. In a show of solidarity, the planners of the Tel Aviv event canceled theirs as well.

    The Palestinian activist web site Electronic Intifada has published a press release by the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), dated October 4. The press release notes that according to OneVoice, its People’s Summit will “mark the first time that massive numbers of Israelis and Palestinians gather simultaneously to unite against violent extremism.” So isn’t that a good thing? No, says PACBI, it is a problem. PACBI strongly condemns this effort precisely because it would lead to normalization of relations with Israel: “the event falls under the category of normalization projects and violates the call for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS), endorsed by over 170 Palestinian civil society organizations, trade unions, political parties, and grassroots movements.”

    The press release concludes with this call for action: “We call on Arab and Palestinian artists, in particular, not to participate in this or any similar event whose real objectives have nothing to do with genuine peace. We call on Palestinian board members of the One Million Voices to withdraw their support for this movement.” It is hard to understand why PACBI assumes that OneVoice’s objectives have nothing to do with “genuine peace.” As OneVoice states: “The Summits, and the work of OneVoice, are not an attempt to define the content of those negotiations, but to demand progress thereon.” The mission of OneVoice is to call for peace, not to dictate peace terms. Apparently PACBI does not like Israelis and Palestinians calling for peace and meeting together as equals. It will be satisfied only by defeating Israel through “boycott, divestment, and sanctions.” PACBI already said it does not want “normalization.”

    In issuing this call against the peace rally, PACBI claims to speak for Palestinian society: “This call has been endorsed by tens of cultural and other civil society organizations in Palestine and the Arab World.” Will Palestinians, either by their support or by their silence, allow PACBI to speak for them? Is there really a balance to PACBI and these “tens of cultural and other civil society organizations” in Palestinian society? Are there people in substantial numbers willing to meet the other side as fellow human beings and share true aspirations for peace? Or must any “genuine peace” come only through completely defeating and humiliating Israel, by any means necessary?

    It was the Palestinian event, not the Israeli one, that had to be canceled because of rejectionist threats. The world needs to hear whether the rejectionists will have the final word. Are there moderates in sufficient numbers who are willing to speak out and condemn those on their side who would destroy any chance for a peace between equals? Or will silence once again be the powerful last word?

    If someone advanced an extremist position and claimed to speak for me, I know what I would do.

    __._,_.___

  39. 41 Non-Arab Arab October 18, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    Oh, dear poor Chaya, you’ve been ignoring what was asked of you far longer here as you well know. Has your butt actually fused to your chair? Come now, you’ve been ignoring your duty to go listen ever since it was first brought up days and days ago. Come on now, they’re your neighbors, they can and want to tell you their stories, you don’t hate your neighbors enough to deliberately ignore them and put words in their mouths and presume to speak for them do you? I understand you might be frightened. Getting out of your chair at this ppint is probably like ripping a band aid off a hairy arm with infested sores – but you need to do it, it’s only going to get worse

    And I understand you’re probably afraid of speaking to actual people who don’t have your pre-determined script to read from. But its ok, you’re going to be all right. Come on, hop a bus, get in your car, it’s just a short ride away and in hours or even just minutes you’ll be hearing actual people tell you – yes, you in person face to face – tell you their own life stories. You won’t be making it up any more, you’ll actually hear from the survivors of 1948 and the occupation their own stories. Talk to as many of them as you can, their stories are varied, but themes will emerge.

    You’re so lucky to live there and have this opportunity, now go forth and listen young man, you’re going to be a better person for it.

  40. 42 Chaya October 19, 2007 at 12:21 pm

    “young man”????? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I am not a man and I am not that young!!! LOL LOL LOL

    So, tell me, please why do most ‘Palestinians’ of East Jerusalem do NOT want to live under PA rule??

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071016.wmideastjerusalem16/BNStory/International/home

    Why don’t you ONCE respond to anything I have posted??

  41. 43 Non-Arab Arab October 20, 2007 at 2:43 am

    Oh sorry Chaya, if you prefer old woman, that’s just fine, as you like, just say what you want to be referred to as. And Chaya, if you still can’t carry out the simplest moral duty you have to go actually speak to your Palestinian refugee neighbors before you go off on your long diatribes presuming to speak for them…well you really shouldn’t be harping on other people for not listening to everything you said after that initial request to you was made (and made, and made, and made, and made, and made…losing track of how many times its been made and ignored now actually). Now go ahead, I know you can do it, I know you can listen. God gave you two ears to listen and a heart to feel your neighbors’ feelings without smothering them with your own first. Go ahead, do your duty, and then let’s have that sensible conversation I know you are capable of if only you’ll get over yourself and start listening to your neighbors. I’ve listened to Palestinians, I’ve listened to Israelis, you’d be amazed at how much you’re going to realize you’ve been letting yourself miss once you actually go and do it and stop giving excuses for not doing it.

  42. 44 Chaya October 20, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    I don’t need to go there – I have Ha’aretz to read. What you are ignoring is the fact that THEY are responsible for the morass they have created for themselves. Why do the parents allow their children to be brainwashed into believing that becoming suicide martyrs is something to strive for???

  43. 45 Non-Arab Arab October 21, 2007 at 1:07 am

    Chaya, I’m so sorry to hear you are an addict who remains in denial. The drunk can stop any time, the drug addict’s problem is all their family members and friends who just don’t understand. That’s what you’re saying. You do need to go, you need to hear their life stories for yourself, and you need to hear lots of them. Until you’ve done that, you’re just another alcoholic living in denial. The first step is admitting you are powerless to fix your problem. Perhaps in fact before you even go to a refugee camp to hear the stories, you should first attend some AA meetings. Here’s a list of AA meetings in Israel:

    http://www.aa-israel.org/pages/meetingeng.htm (English)
    http://www.aa-israel.org/pages/meetingheb.htm (Hebrew)

    Perhaps that’s optional since going and listening to Palestinians tell you about their lives will in fact bring you through the first of the 12 steps taught in any addiction recovery program. Good luck to you Chaya, I really hope you can overcome your addiction to the denial of other peoples’ right to speak for themselves. I want you to know that I know it can be done, there is hope for you, you just have to admit to your problem and then believe that God can heal you and it can be done. I wish you luck in your healing.

  44. 46 Chaya October 22, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    Actually, it is you who are in denial. But this is ridiculous . I am wasting my time with a person who won’t even look at what I have posted here. So goodbye to you! I have better things to do with my time.

  45. 47 Non-Arab Arab October 22, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    Goodbye, I am sorry you were not able at this time to speak to your Palestinian refugee neighbors. I hope some day you see them as human beings to be listened to instead of imaginary beings to be shaped into whatever you wish them to be.

  46. 48 Kaddie October 26, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Too many Israelis like Chaya refuse to acknowledge that it is their government’s racist, Apartheid behaviour that fuels the conflict.

    For example, Israel’s LARGEST land distributor has a policy of selling lands only to Jews. Yes, only to Jews.

    [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070924/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_land;_ylt=AlWY3Q1sZ2UgEzrimI64f5VvaA8F[/url]

    And this policy has been permitted by the Israeli government for over 40 years, with the Israeli Supreme Court allowing the practice to continue for the next 3 months. What?!?

    Can you imagine how the U.S. Press would treat a policy by an organization that told its employees to only sell land to whites? There would be outrage, investigations, etc. But if it happens in Israel, our press not only ignores it but our government uses our tax dollars to help pay for it.

    Then there’s the Apartheid educational system in which non-Jews are separated from Jews in the public educational system and that spends more money on the Jewish children even though both Jews and non-Jews pay the same amount of taxes.

    [url]http://hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/JILPfinal.pdf[/url]

    We need to start treating Israel the same way that we treated South Africa. Sanctions…sanctions…sanctions


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